Ticket Prices and Attendance Discussion (Cont'd)...

[Coldrice]

... From the Hawks v Bolts thread. IMO this is a nice discussion to be continued. If anything, it saves a GDT thread from hijacking. Not trying to take Sotnos' mod duties or anything, I've been wanting to chime in on this for a few days now.

Originally Posted by WaiverWire

So what you are saying is that this team, with a new owner that has put his money where his mouth is, and GM making some very bold news, and a team that is having one of their best years ever, not to mention the NHL goal leader can not get 4000-5000 more fans from their own area into the seats? With the size of Tampa Bay that is pathetic.

I don't even want to talk about the economy as when things hit the fan several years ago I was blasted here when I said I was very concerned about the high cost of tickets and the poor economy.

Originally Posted by Sotnos

Feel like I'm repeating myself (because I am) but ticket sales lag behind success. Do you not remember the "car wash" complaints from Feaster & subsequent promotion? We weren't selling out in the spring of 2004 after a division title the previous year and a team on a super hot streak, but we're going to sell out now?!

Originally Posted by WaiverWire

Which translates to the game is over priced for the smaller markets.

Originally Posted by Top Shelf

Hopefully coming around to that simple reality will result in less blaming and shaming for those of us who find legitimate financial concerns make it so we just can't swing the cost of attending the games. We're all counting on you STHs to cheer extra loud for us WW--it ain't like we don't want to be there in person

Originally Posted by njbolt12

Hello recession.

I guess the game is overpriced for the NJ / NY metro area as well (which has some of the highest wages in the country), because you see PLENTY of empty seats at Devils games.

[Coldrice]

I'm not taking either side, just throwing my own thoughts and some data out there to further the discussion.

I think it's fair to say that there may be, oh say, 1500-2000 Buc/Bolt fans that blew their CSD (Competitive Sports Dollar) on Bucs games because of the Blackouts and that unfortunately tapped into the "Bolts Account" from a walk-up perspective. Could be more, could be less. As a business guy, one thing that has concerened me of late are the amount of Suites that are "Dark".

Hopefully soon that will change. Or you may see a big ramp up in advertising, including (I'm speculating but wouldn't be shocked) seeing the "dreaded" Virtual Ads on the glass along the end boards... or some other creative ad strategy. Like Seat Ads in the Lower Level, etc. to offset any losses in walk-ups.

I was figuring there would be a spike of some sort in Bolt attendance with the dismantling of the Rays Roster, at least in the final months of the season. Not sure we're seeing that yet.

One thing we all know with certainty is, once the Playoffs start, all the "I've been a Fan since 89!" and the "I've been a STH since the Expo Hall Days (While shamelessly wearing opponents jerseys till today)!" Band-Wagoners will be out in force.

Before I forget, I would like to see a tie in with the 2011-2012 STH drive some sort of offering for the upcoming Frozen Four. Not too sure if the NCAA dictates all that or not, but if there's a way, I think that would be awesome.

[Flycoon]

I believe the advent of HD broafcast has had a significant impact. I had the ill fortune of viewing the Sens game last night on a 19" analog set. I had forgotten how difficult it can be to read the elapsed game time on the set; forget actually following the puck.

I skip games (rain, cold, just too lazy) I have tickets for because watching it on a 52" HD set is almost as good. Better than games that we are surrounded by people who chatter incessantly about stuff that would be drivel on Facebook.

That said, I renewed my 1/2 season package. Great seats so I don't mind having them even when I don't use them. Clients or friends usually take them but they occasionally go unused.

One thing we all know with certainty is, once the Playoffs start, all the "I've been a Fan since 89!" and the "I've been a STH since the Expo Hall Days (While shamelessly wearing opponents jerseys till today)!" Band-Wagoners will be out in force.

The band wagon fans can have my seats as I will not pay, even a reduced rate, to see their play of late in the play offs.

I see one major problem with the NHL........guaranteed contracts. If the player does not play for what he was sign for, then you should be able to release then with no further compensation.

Second, no player should be making more than $5,000,000 a season. Hopefully this will keep all prices down for the average fan.

Third, owners or the NHL should have an arena savings account. No taxpayers money should be used to build a place where both sides make millions. The only exception to this rule would be if the arena was paid with tourist tax dollars. And then the government should not turn the place over to the tenant to do as they wish such as pocketing the naming rights or receiving all payments for programs held in the venue by outside groups.

[Coldrice]

Originally Posted by WaiverWire

The band wagon fans can have my seats as I will not pay, even a reduced rate, to see their play of late in the play offs.

C'mon WW. I figured I knew you enough to be a die hard. Although their play of late equates to what lies in my back yard when I don't clean up after my dog, but I find that hard to believe Sir. That sort of mentality helps those Band Wagoners and others to have the ability to attend. Buck up and get back in the fight Soldier!!!

Originally Posted by WaiverWire

I see one major problem with the NHL........guaranteed contracts. If the player does not play for what he was sign for, then you should be able to release then with no further compensation. .

I think that you'd find Burke and some other GM's would concur on that one.

Originally Posted by WaiverWire

Second, no player should be making more than $5,000,000 a season. Hopefully this will keep all prices down for the average fan. .

Unfortunately though, the hopes of seeing this died a long time ago. Regarding prices down for the average fans, we'll need more Corporate monies not just here (Fill those suites), but throughout the League. Another benefit that we may see very soon is... as soon as the League figures out and lays down the tracks on capitalizing on the Comcast/NBC merger. Therein lies the National TV Contract. Meaning more $$$'s.

Originally Posted by WaiverWire

Third, owners or the NHL should have an arena savings account. No taxpayers money should be used to build a place where both sides make millions. The only exception to this rule would be if the arena was paid with tourist tax dollars. And then the government should not turn the place over to the tenant to do as they wish such as pocketing the naming rights or receiving all payments for programs held in the venue by outside groups.

Can you expand a little further please, if you don't mind? Because that's essentially the deal that Vinik has with the TCC regarding the Forum. Not sure if you were saying if you were on board with that and endorsing it or otherwise.

[Coldrice]

In regards to Season Tickets and Attendance. Since the Lockout, the average League ticket price has gone from $41.19 to $54.25. Sorry, couldn't find any data for the current season. Although there's a good article from Reuters about this season.

Here's a great link to show the ebb and flow of avg ticket prices up to the 2009-10 season.

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/inde...95/119-2008-09

Some interesting deals/data I pulled from HF BoH Forum for 2011-12.

Examples:

Kings - STH's get T-Shirts with an accompanying letter from Dean Lombardi and keepsake photos that feature their name on the back of a jersey hanging in the Kings' locker room. Announced avg increases of $3.80 for renewals by March 21st, and $6.87 after the 21st or new STH's.

Caps - Price increase varying from "Attack" or "Defend". Avg will be $27 a game for cheapest ST's to $275 per game, with the "Defend" end up by $3.

Turds announced if you buy ST's now you can attend the remaining games this season for free.

Preds - Should look this one over, pretty decent. http://blogs.tennessean.com/predator...-ticket-plans/

Leafs - "Hostage" letter sent out for full payment by end of season.

Wild - Froze their's.

Rag's - Basically same thing as Leafs, just announced yesterday. Rangers' will go up by an avg of 23%. Including a 198% increase for the "Suit and Tie" seats, 50%-75% for other lower level seats

(Nod to NJBolt) Agree with one poster over at HF Business of Hockey, should see a bigger spike in attendance from Rags fans at Devil and Isles games if that's the case. Which I would think may mirror what we're going through here with "out-of-towners". Albeit it's either a PATH trip West or LIRR East and a short bus/cab ride.

Lastly, attendance. Here's the link to show yearly "attendance" figures. http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

No doubt the "Closet Bolt Fan Wearing Other Team's Gear" and "Out-of-Towners" have contributed nicely to our attendance this season. I stopped keeping track back in Jan, but we were at a run rate of 16,800 before our Mega home stand. Of course, that's "announced" numbers though.

So what does this all mean? It lends credence to Sotnos' post about the numbers lag, an argument could be made for WW's overpricing for small markets post, and concur with TS... that with most fans not being able to afford to go consistantly, that leaves seats available for "others" to occupy.

What does this mean for us here specifically? To close the "gap" of available seats for others to taint? Depends on a few factors. Like...

If there's a NFL Season

Rays Season (Success or Failure)

What Stevie Y & Co. does in the Offseason

Very nice post Coldrice

[Sotnos]

Not sure I have much to contribute, made all my points already.

Originally Posted by Coldrice

One thing we all know with certainty is, once the Playoffs start, all the "I've been a Fan since 89!" and the "I've been a STH since the Expo Hall Days (While shamelessly wearing opponents jerseys till today)!" Band-Wagoners will be out in force.

Yep. I couldn't get tickets to the banner raising because of those people, still ticks me off.

Originally Posted by Coldrice

Leafs - "Hostage" letter sent out for full payment by end of season.

Rag's - Basically same thing as Leafs, just announced yesterday. Rangers' will go up by an avg of 23%. Including a 198% increase for the "Suit and Tie" seats, 50%-75% for other lower level seats

2 places I'd love to see a game though I doubt it'll ever happen. I like how the Times blog says that some Rags STHs will "get relief" since they're getting hit with only a 10% increase. From what I've read, Leafs STHs got their "pay up or else" letter via email. This is the kind of stuff that makes me laugh when our STHs complain that they don't get enough perks or aren't treated well enough, but that's probably a whole other thread.

Can you expand a little further please, if you don't mind? Because that's essentially the deal that Vinik has with the TCC regarding the Forum. Not sure if you were saying if you were on board with that and endorsing it or otherwise.

Taxpayer money should never be used for these venues unless we rent the building to an owner for just his one purpose.

Let's look at RJS. We built that place with our money and gave the Glazier's full control. They collect rent for other events, parking, and concessions. This is something that should be under control by the TSP and collected by them. The Glazier's should only have control for the 8 games they play there, not who else may play there such as a concert or a tractor pull.

The day has come when the owners and the players, along with MLB, NHL, NBBA, NFL should be setting money aside to build their own buildings. The buildings should not be paid with our money.

[njbolt12]

Originally Posted by Sotnos

2 places I'd love to see a game though I doubt it'll ever happen. I like how the Times blog says that some Rags STHs will "get relief" since they're getting hit with only a 10% increase. From what I've read, Leafs STHs got their "pay up or else" letter via email. This is the kind of stuff that makes me laugh when our STHs complain that they don't get enough perks or aren't treated well enough, but that's probably a whole other thread.

Well first off Sotnos, MSG is a dump, haha. World's most famous arena = world's most outdated arena. The crowd is boisterous, sure, but the Forum is a much better place to see a game, and as it is now, I was able to get lower corner seats 10-15 rows up for what you'd pay for nosebleed seats behind a column in MSG. The Prudential Center is nice... except that watching the Devils is like watching paint dry... and occasionally the lights don't work

There are some phenomenal deals for STHs, but even if you get a pair in the 300s, you have to factor in everything else for 41 games (parking / concessions / transportation / etc).

On the other spectrum of getting value for your money, you can go to MSG, and watch some suits come in and sit in $250 seats for a period and a half, drink a couple beers, and barely watch the action because they're twiddling away on their smartphones. Most of the time those or corporate seats, but that's just ridiculous to me. You don't see that to the same extent in the forum.

My company is laying off my entire office this summer and I'm very seriously considering coming down here. Obviously I'd need to land a job first (much easier said than done at the moment), but if relocation happens for me, one of the first things I'd do is buy season tickets. As for affording them, well I'm a twentysomething with no dependents or debt so it's easier for me to do so than if I had a family to support (and buy tickets for).

Mr. Vinik seems like a smart guy. He said the area had excellent demographics. He obviously expects that when the team is successful (getting there now) AND the economy rebounds, some of that disposable income will start snapping up these outrageous season ticket deals.